[occupyaustin-it] Which Boyd Carter do we believe?
Nolan Darilek
nolan at thewordnerd.info
Tue Nov 29 11:53:08 CST 2011
Feel like I need to chime in here:
Boyd offered me a spot on one of the Occupy FM advisory boards, or at
least that's what I recall (I'm not clear if it was just for FM, for
technologies used in all the organizations, etc.) The offer was made in
early November. At that time, there was already heavy talk of splitting
the efforts off from local groups and making them national.
FWIW, I have an interesting perspective on this. Every occupation I've
seen thus far is using Ustream or Livestream for their broadcasts. While
this is a sensible choice, and I don't fault them for making it, the
reality is that these platforms use Flash and are by and large
inaccessible. Adobe has made token commitments to accessibility, but
these have only manifested on Windows and OS X, and only if Flash
developers take advantage of them. Their is nothing available for
Android, and indeed Adobe has pulled out of the mobile Flash space to
back HTML 5 technologies. So I have a personal interest in advising
these broadcast networks to adopt open standards such as HTML 5, and in
building technologies to help support this (there are codec wars, of
course, so there need to be custom-built or off-the-opensource-shelf
technologies to dynamically transcode to MP3 for almost everything,
Vorbis/Theora for Firefox, etc.) And I'd love to see other occupations
adopt these, because I'd like to see what's going on in NYC or LA
without effectively being blocked out of some aspects of the interface.
So that's me, and for my part I'm thrilled to see folks building stuff
like this for *everyone* to use. And I don't get what's so terrible
about that.
Software isn't like food that goes bad when it's shipped, nor is it like
shelter that is tied to a given location. In general, it often costs
more for a bunch of occupations to host separate instances of the same
apps as it would for a single instance or two to support several. We
could probably host the web presences for most occupations on a single
$8/month unlimited hosting package, for instance. So what's so terrible
about developing solutions locally, maybe even getting donations to
help, then saying "hey look what we did, any occupation in the nation
can use this now too."?
Nothing in the forwarded emails appeared particularly damning to me.
Sure, OA's name was mentioned, but I never got the sense that it was in
an unfavorable context. And I'm not all that clear on what's so
god-awful about starting a group with the intent of helping Occupy
Austin, mentioning its name and saying "we'd like to take this effort
national and, I dunno, maybe help even more people with it."? Am I
missing something?
Furthermore, I'm a bit unclear on this whole talk of profits. In the
interests of full disclosure, it was mentioned to me that there *might*
be the possibility of paid work, and that I might be offered that.
Again, what's the issue with getting paid?
Right now I work for a non-profit. Many people do. I offered them a
great rate that they'd likely not get from other software developers
primarily because I'm just interested in earning a living wage.
So if these organizations can offer some folks a living wage to help
nation-wide occupations as a full-time thing, then what's so horrible
about that, especially if the services are provided either free or at a
low enough cost that it rivals the competition? Would it be great to
live more simply? Sure. For what it's worth, I'm pondering ways that I
might be able to camp out with the occupation and do my for-a-living
work on-site. But that's just not practical or possible for everyone,
and like it or not, we currently live in a society where money
determines many things that it shouldn't. Wouldn't it be awesome to
create a sustainable model that shows how the existing frameworks could
change to work better? It'd be great if the entire world ran off of
timebanks/LETS or something, but it'd be great if we all rode around on
flying solar ponies too. And while volunteers are great, volunteers can
also be less reliable. Witness, for instance, the recent drop-off in IT
participation mentioned in another email. Whether this is because of
people's jobs taking them away, or whether people are just getting tired
of the bickering here, we're losing the people we need to do some of the
things we wanted. Like it or not, when you provide people what they need
to have food and shelter, they tend to stick around more readily. And
you need people to stick around readily and be reliable when you're
building out on a national level. You can't promise a bunch of
occupations some amount of infrastructure, then not deliver on that
promise because Alice's job made a major push on a project, Bob had a
baby, Charlie got burned out and Dianne decided to volunteer for Food
rather than IT.
Also, as another tangentially-related aside, I never got the impression
that any software we built would be for-profit. Indeed, we've pushed for
open source all throughout IT, and while these other organizations may
be separate, I never got the impression that they were any different.
This is getting a bit tiring. It's like we're building boogiemen or
something.
The processes and books for these organizations are open. Are they
viewable anywhere online? That would probably end lots of this really
quickly, just point people to the accounts/filing documents and there's
not much they can make up.
In short, it'd be nice to just organically evolve a new model, but that
just isn't realistic. Some amount of formalization is needed to support
large-scale infrastructure, and sometimes some amount of
money-making/paid participation is necessary as well. If we want to be
angry about something, let's redirect that at organizations that take
these systems which some of us need to live and turn them into games, or
that create mindsets which encourage saving for the eventuality where
the income needed to live is denied.
On 11/29/2011 05:03 AM, Boyd Carter wrote
>
> If you've got me quoted (I'd like to see it) saying that
> occupyradioaustin.org and occupyradio.fm are separate, unrelated
> projects, you must have misunderstood me saying that both occupyradio
> projects have always been independent of occupy austin.
>
> I'm on the national inter-occ record stating that
> occupyradioaustin.org was the beta test for occupyradio.fm . We chose
> occupyradioaustin.org instead of occupyradio.org for the beta because
> some shmuck in California camped the domain name only to later abandon
> it. **That** guy was the worst. activist. evar. The "austin" part of
> it means that we are **in austin**. It was our great misfortune that
> some of us actually wanted to do both national and local occupy austin
> work, which is apparently unforgiveable.
>
> I know this because I've been the lead engineer working with live365
> on both occupyradioaustin.org and occupyradio.fm. You have actually
> made us regret putting links to occupy austin on our website in
> solidarity. How is this possible? In spite of all of your vitriol,
> we always have and still encourage people to visit occupyaustin.org on
> the occupyradioaustin.org website and to donate in any way they can.
> Please explain to me how this syncs up with your bullshit narrative of
> me telling people not to donate to occupyaustin.org. Please. I'm
> serious. Occupyradioaustin.org and occupyradio.fm has **always** made
> occupy austin look good despite our independence. Occupy austin, on
> the other hand, has done nothing but create problems for us.
>
> For the last damn time, I have worked on projects of local, regional
> and national scope for the movement.. all at the same time (gasp!).
> Which is why I asked the software company to donate their
> **software** to projects of every scope I was working on in the
> already public web-form request you "busted" me on.
>
> The only thing that has stopped for me is the local work, largely
> because of people like you who seek to "protect" the good name of
> occupy austin by continually dragging it through the mud.
>
> For the last damn time, there is no profit motive. We are open docs
> and open books. I don't know how else to make it any simpler for you
> to comprehend. I know it's hard for you since you are already
> committed to this narrative of yourself as bastion against all that is
> evil in the world for all occupiers. Please find a hobby that doesn't
> involve interfering with people who actually work and build things for
> the movement.
>
> For the last damn time, everything we do is transparent and
> free/libre/open source. I have repeatedly presented our work in open
> meetings locally and nationally and called for anyone to help and to
> review our work. Engineers and media people from all walks and
> locations have offered and given support. You are indicting all of us.
>
> None of what you've said about us matches what we've actually done.
> You protect yourself from baseless claims of defamation with the
> truth, which isn't on your side. Instead, you dig in deeper and keep
> troll-tossing flaming buckets of crap everywhere. Pete is a free
> individual, free to do whatever the hell he wants. That's why I love
> this country.
>
> I am a bit more forgiving, but I am in the internet security
> business. My patience is running thin. My livelihood depends on me
> telling the truth and people believing it. I perform work that
> requires **millions** in coverage for professional liability
> insurance, 30-man deep 2-day engineering review boards and a lawyer on
> retainer. You keep calling me a liar and a profiteer in public forums
> and you are going to be in court for a long, long time. I suggest
> that if you have any more questions for me, you call me directly and
> sort it out before launching accusations in an email. I will help you
> find the truth and make it known. It's in my own best interest.
>
> Lastly, **someone** has broken into those email accounts and you
> **still** won't repudiate it. Here's your chance.
>
> *From:*Brian Overman [mailto:mail at brianoverman.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 29, 2011 3:14 AM
> *To:* Boyd Carter
> *Cc:* occupyaustin-it at foojutsu.org; it at occupyaustin.org;
> infoscribes at occupyaustin.org
> *Subject:* Re: Which Boyd Carter do we believe?
>
> First off, you never addressed the question at all. These two
> statements you make are completely polar opposite one another. They
> are in direct contradiction. And yet you don't bother addressing
> that....at all. So it takes you a whole page to answer an email about
> two lines. And you don't even address the issue in that whole page of
> useless text.
>
> Step two...I have no access to anything on the website. Or any emails.
> Anywhere. I have never logged into anything. Ever. So your delusion
> that I am invading someone's privacy may continue in your mind, but I
> honestly wouldn't even know HOW to login to an account. My
> "occupyaustin.org <http://occupyaustin.org>" emails are outgoing
> through my personal SMTP with a "reply-to" alias and apparently the
> replies forward back to my personal address.. This email I pulled your
> quote from was distributed today to a variety of inboxes to try to
> shed some transparency on what you have been doing. So keep your
> accusations to yourself. Otherwise...that's called defamation. Also
> grounds for a lawsuit. Which I have no interest in pursuing against
> you, because I understand you are just looking for some reason to make
> me look bad.
>
> Step three...I have never asked to get my hands on money. I think what
> you work on should be open source and for the betterment of the
> occupation. The statement makes no sense except maybe your own guilt
> getting the best of you and projecting that onto me? I have actually
> been fighting very hard to keep others from turning initiatives
> created in our open source volunteer environment into profit
> for themselves at the expense of the Occupy Movement. And I think it
> is laughable that your business partner has insisted childishly on
> tying up the funds by making a check out to me instead of the finance
> team as he has been begged to do. Juts to tie up our money for longer
> because he knows I want NOTHING to do with money and WON'T be cashing
> his check.
>
> I think you'd be surprised to find that I am not against, in theory,
> the "national" initiatives you are supporting. I am against, it seems,
> the method by which they were implemented. Including you telling
> people in the national movement that OccupyRadio Austin needed their
> help and that it would eventually be turned into Occupy Radio FM and
> THEN telling us in the Austin the two have never been related in any
> way whatsoever.
>
> And finally...I would love to interview you. Peter has said he is
> protected by his corporation and I should send the questions to his
> attorney (which I will when he tells me who that is), Jonathan Cronin
> refused to answer any of the questions put forward to him as well, but
> did provide a short statement. You are last on the list. I have to
> finish interviewing all of the other sources so I have the information
> I need to ask you informed questions. What a a journalist!
>
> In all honesty, this is taking up way too much energy and forcing me
> to deal with all of this negativity and division your lack of
> transparency has caused. I would rather just put this behind me. But
> because Peter has decided to jump straight into a frivolous lawsuits,
> I am forced to continue with my work so that I can protect myself from
> his baseless claims. So if I am going to get sued I might as well have
> an article to show for all of the work I have done in researching
> BEFORE I said anything in public about what was going on.
>
> The movement IS about Austin, it IS about me and it IS about YOU. It
> is about the people. It is NOT about making money. Which is what drew
> you away from the PEOPLE of Occupy Austin, right?. Isn't that what
> drove you to keep secrets from them? Isn't it what drove you to
> protect yourself by saying Occupy Radio Austin would soon BECOME
> Occupy Radio FM and then tell the local movement that the TWO were
> never related projects? To protect your personal profit?
>
> Or was it something else that led you to these actions? Because
> if it was something else, something for the betterment of the
> movement, then my best hope is that you WOULDN'T quit. But instead
> that you would work hard. But that you would do so from this point
> forward with a spirit of transparency and accountability. That you
> would be a man of your word when speaking to the local movement AND
> when speaking to the national movement.
>
> Obviously this is not specific to IT. Or really has nothing to do with
> IT except that at the time you were putting this information out there
> you were doing it under their name. Perhaps you should contact me in a
> back channel and just explain to me what this project is to you. What
> you have been told it is meant to be. But at the end of the
> day...you're right. You don't have to answer to me. Or to Austin. Or
> to the people of this movement. You can choose to keep what you are
> doing,
>
> Thanks for taking the time to engage me on this topic. I know it is
> frustrating ALL of us. And hopefully soon we can move on in a
> different direction with things that are positive for the movement. If
> you have questions or concerns or just want to talk to find a way to
> get this past us, please contact me direct at mail at brianoverman.com
> <mailto:mail at brianoverman.com> since this is probably not an IT
> concern beyond what has already been discussed.
>
> Brian
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 2:19 AM, Boyd Carter <boydcarter at gmail.com
> <mailto:boydcarter at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> "in support of the Occupy Austin, Occupy Wall Street and other Occupy
> sites worldwide." ... I was hoping for gratis services for all occupy
> projects regardless of scope, application or who gets credit. It's an
> expensive service from this company and I knew we couldn't pay for it.
>
> This came from a web form I filled out trying to get free services for
> the movement worldwide. I've never had the ability to send emails as
> it at occupyaustin.org <mailto:it at occupyaustin.org> it's always been a
> distribution list to me. It was listed here so all the IT magnets
> would be able to see what I was doing with the replies, after
> discussing reaching out to this software as a service company in the
> open IT meetings.
>
> "We typically take in-kind donations in lieu of cash donations." This
> is because people who sell stuff online with non-profit discounts
> still want to receive payment and still want to see the non-profit IRS
> number to document their tax write-off and I didn't want a hold up if
> they were willing to see past this and help us by just giving us
> something for free. Occupyaustin still doesn't have a IRS non-profit
> cert. On the whole this is true movement wide because it can take a
> year to file for 501(c)whatever status and receive it.
>
> Why are you so preoccupied with enforcing your imaginary local
> bureaucracy and getting your hands on money, Brian?
>
> **EVERYTHING IT WORKS ON IS POTENTIALLY NATIONAL IN SCOPE** All
> national IT inter-occ calls I've been on have gone something like
> this: "Here's what we're working on. Who else is doing something
> similar?, and How do we scale it up internationally to avoid
> reproducing work?" Blame the technology, not us. Stop indicting all
> IT occupiers worldwide. You look foolish.
>
> You will not limit my scope for your delusions of grandeur and petty
> provincialism, Brian. I'll work on whatever I want to work on for the
> movement, thank you very much. The reference of my IT magnet status
> of the time was for authentication and non-repudiation with back
> channels via the occupyaustin.org <http://occupyaustin.org> website
> where I **was** .. WAIT A MINUTE.. **STILL**???? ARE YOU EFFING
> KIDDING ME????.. listed as a magnet **and** where people are invited
> to donate via wepay.
>
> Has anyone had a chat with you about logging into and publishing
> emails/accounts that aren't in your name yet? That legal account has
> client/attorney privileged emails, btw. Good luck with that. You
> aren't building any trust in the nerd community here. Brian, Anton and
> Cesar are also logging into and publishing individually named emails
> i.e. jonathan at occupyaustin.org <mailto:jonathan at occupyaustin.org>-- I
> advise anyone with a named occupyaustin.org <http://occupyaustin.org>
> account to reconsider using it if you are worried about your privacy.
> Brian and Anton clearly don't give a crap and are more than happy to
> punt your rights with their own warrantless searches. Bad form,
> Brian. Very bad form.
>
> This movement isn't about me, it isn't about Austin, and it isn't
> about YOU, Brian.
>
> *WE WON'T QUIT.*
>
> I can't believe I'm still wasting time with this crap :/
>
> Please contact me if you have any questions. (something Brian still
> hasn't done. What a journalist)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Boyd
>
> *From:*Brian Overman [mailto:mail at brianoverman.com
> <mailto:mail at brianoverman.com>]
> *Sent:* Monday, November 28, 2011 11:42 PM
> *To:* occupyaustin-it at foojutsu.org
> <mailto:occupyaustin-it at foojutsu.org>; boydcarter at gmail.com
> <mailto:boydcarter at gmail.com>; it at occupyaustin.org
> <mailto:it at occupyaustin.org>
> *Subject:* Which Boyd Carter do we believe?
>
> Boyd Carter on Nov. 27th, 2011:
>
> "Occupy radio has always been an independent project, never part of
> occupy austin. "
>
> Boyd Carter on November 4th, 2011:
>
> "Lastly we are also driving the development and expansion of
> occupyradioaustin.org <http://occupyradioaustin.org/> (soon to be
> occupyradio.fm <http://occupyradio.fm/>)"
>
> In this email soliciting services from a company in the name of Occupy
> Austin. Notice donations are also pushed to NOT be made through cash
> donations to the website, but through in-kind services:
>
> From: "Boyd Carter" <it at occupyaustin.org <mailto:it at occupyaustin.org>>
> Reply-To: "Boyd Carter" <it at occupyaustin.org <mailto:it at occupyaustin.org>>
> Date: 4 Nov 2011 05:00:54 -0400
> To: "prioritysupport at fogcreek.com
> <mailto:prioritysupport at fogcreek.com>" <prioritysupport at fogcreek.com
> <mailto:prioritysupport at fogcreek.com>>
> Subject: FOG: Non-Profit Pricing
>
> >NAME: Boyd Carter
> >COMPANY: occupyaustin.org <http://occupyaustin.org/>
> >
> >Hi,
> >
> >We are interested in using FogBugz/Kiln to support ongoing IT efforts
> in support of the Occupy Austin, Occupy Wall Street and other Occupy
> sites worldwide.
> >
> >Working with freenetworkfoundation.org
> <http://freenetworkfoundation.org/>, we are the team that prototyped
> and are iterating the FreedomTower/Free Wifi systems in place in
> Austin, New York, LA, San Antonio and elsewhere.
> >
> >We also have efforts ongoing in web and handset application
> development and communication tools under the @occupyapps moniker.
> >
> >Lastly we are also driving the development and expansion of
> occupyradioaustin.org <http://occupyradioaustin.org/> (soon to be
> occupyradio.fm <http://occupyradio.fm/>)
> >
> >I have used FogBugz/Kiln with success in the past and have suggested
> it for our list of possible project mgmt/tracking solutions for use in
> the group.
> >
> >Cheap is good. Free is better. We typically take in-kind donations in
> lieu of cash donations. I would expect that we would be pretty low
> volume carrying 5-10 fairly active users and 15-20 irregular contributors.
> >
> >We understand that not everyone is open to association with our
> movement and no explanation is necessary if this is the case.
> However, we would appreciate any help we could get.
> >
> >Thanks for your time. Please feel free to call at any time if you
> have any questions or would like to discuss details.
> >
> >Boyd Carter
> >Technology Magnet
> >it at occupyaustin.org <mailto:it at occupyaustin.org>
> >682.429.4233 <tel:682.429.4233>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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>
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